Archived Inside Fighting Articles 04′

Articles and interviews from Inside Fighting’s 04′ VAULT…

Ishe Smith Interview

By Derek Callahan

01/02/2004

On the birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. Ishe ‘Sugar Shay’ Smith will face the toughest challenge to date in his unblemished professional prizefighting career. A man who is no stranger to adversity and no stranger to overcoming it, Smith (13-0, 7 KOs) will be squaring off against the extremely dangerous reigning WBA Continental Americas and USBA welterweight champion, Randall Bailey (27-3, 26 KOs). Heading what will undoubtedly be the biggest fight of his career to date, there’s more to the young prospect than meets the eye. Smith looks to introduce the world to “Sugar Shay” in Santa Ynez, Califnornia come the 15th.

InsideFighting: First off, I’d be interested to know how .you first got into boxing?

Ishe Smith: I was young for my age and going to the gym. My mom’s friend trained a couple fighters, and that was kinda the story. I didn’t like it at first, I wanted to play other sports, but it eventually grew on me and I ended up loving it.

IF: What was the appeal of it for you?

IS: The appeal, I guess just the one on one. No team, nothing you can blame anything on. You go out and give it all you got, and even if you happen to get robbed, the fans can decide that and I like that.

IF: How does your family feel now that you’ve established yourself as a promising young prospect?

IS: My family, they have been great my in-laws have been very supportive, my wife has been awesome through it all. I remember in the summer of 2001, I didn’t even have a place to stay. I had to sleep over at a friend’s house; my wife was pregnant. We were sleeping on the floor, and I’d say, ‘I’m going to go get a job, this boxing isn’t working,’ and she said, ‘No you’re not, we’re gonna pull through this and you’re gonna be champ one day.’ So she kept me very focused, and I want to fulfill that dream for my family.

IF: How does having a family now help to motivate you?

IS: Oh it motivates me a lot cause we just do so much, so many trials and tribulations. God has really been good to us, blessing me with a promoter like Gary Shaw, and a guy like Shelly Finkel as my manager I mean they have been the best through this all and nothing is gonna fulfill me more come January 15th when I win those titles.

IF: How does fighting for a title put more pressure into a fight or how might it not?

IS: No, I pretty much live a good and honest life. I’m Christian. I go to church. I live by the Bible. I do my best to be a good person. It’s the scripture, verse 2:23 it says write down what you want and make it plain and I did that, and God has blessed me ever since. I’d written everything down and I told him that I wanted a title by the end of 2004 and this was about two years ago I wrote this down, and I said by the end of 2004 I want a title. He’s blessed me with this opportunity so I know he wouldn’t bring me this far to leave me and I’m just happy, man. This has been a great experience - memories that I’m going to cherish for the rest of my life.

IF: What have been some of your favorite memories form your career, be them in ring or out of the ring?

IS: Traveling, the team, the memories of after fighting, the celebration, going to eat, and having your family and friends there. Those are the kind of memories that you just never forget, even when you get old. The joking and the laughing, my cut-man, my assistants – those types of things. Having your wife there, having a great time. Gary Shaw’s great, he kept us over in California and got me and my wife front row tickets to watch Lennox Lewis-Klitschko, so these are memories that I cherish and I can’t explain how it makes me feel. It’s an honor to fight under the GSP banner and to be off with a guy like Shelly Finkel just really means a lot to me.

IF: I understand that you’ve sparred consistently with some of the established dogs at your weight and above, guys like Oscar de la Hoya and Fernando Vargas. How has that helped you?

IS: De la Hoya, Vargas, Mosley. Those guys help me out a lot confidence-wise; skill-wise; I mean I dominate. It takes me to have to go with one of those camps to bring out the best in me. Those camps are like knick-knack, give a little, take a little. They’ll dominate a round or two and then I’m going to dominate a round or two. The Shane Mosley sparring was identical to the Shane Mosley/de la Hoya fight, so it really helped me out a lot. Now that I’m in camp, I’m dominating. I’m in the zone, man. I’m ready. I’m going twelve strong rounds in the gym, and I’m ready for Randall Bailey. I’m ready to do my job on January 15th.

IF: Right, sounds good. How do you prepare for specific opponents, I know some fighters feel that it’s illogical to have a specific strategy because if you get thrown off it you have to play catch-up.

IS: I believe that you always have to have a game plan for a specific fighter you’re fighting. I have a game plan for every fighter I fight, and every game plan is different. Just like in football and basketball, you don’t play every team the same, so in boxing you can’t fight every fighter the same. I don’t care how good you are. A guy like Randall Bailey, we know what he brings. We know he brings a lot of power, and to beat a guy like me… I’ve had over 150-something fights. I’ve never been down. I’ve never been hurt, never been stopped in the amateurs. I’ve never touched the mat in the amateurs. So in order for a guy like Randall Bailey to beat me he’s going to have to bring a lot more to the table than just being able to punch because I’ve been in with the best of them, from the amateurs to the pros. So he’s going to have to bring a lot more to the table than just being able to have a punch.

IF: Right. You were talking about your faith in god a little before, how would you say your faith helps you in the ring?

IS: It helps me out a lot. Like I said, I’ve been through a lot, man. I look back and just realized that I could have been dead. About 6 years ago a guy robbed me: stuck a gun to my head, and robbed me of my money, and I didn’t even have much then. Those types of things happening in my life made me strong now because I’ve realized that I have a greater purpose in life and in boxing. I realized that I’m here for a reason. When I had that gun stuck to my head and got robbed, I could have been dead, and I wasn’t boxing then I had stopped for a while after the ’96 Olympic trials, but I realized that God has a greater plan for me and that I must do this for him. So I’m gonna do this for him and my family and it’s really given me the confidence and the faith that I need that I know I’m gonna be champ.

IF: I understand this fight will be on Showtime how do you feel about being back on the big stage and on TV?

IS: I’m excited! Showtime has got to see me grow. They’ve gotten to see me on two of their cards, and this is like a graduation for me. I’ve had three fights with Gary Shaw and I’ve gotten better every fight, so this is going to be like the graduation.

IF: Compared to some other prospects you don’t have as many pro fights, but on the same token you’ve had extensive amateur experience and have sparred with three of the best guys in the world, all heavier than you. Where do you see yourself on the spectrum of welterweight boxers?

IS: I’m not gonna boast that I think I’m the best prospect in boxing right now. But if you ask me if I think I’m the best prospect in 147 [pound division], then I gotta say yes. You look at the other guys - Anthony Thompson, Chris Smith, Kermit Cintron - they’re not fighting guys like I’m fighting. They wouldn’t have taken the chance with Randall Bailey. You look at Anthony Thompson, he’s fighting guys [who are] 15-10. I don’t want to fight guys like that. I want the boxing writers and the public and especially, most importantly, the fans to recognize me as a real fighter. So even though I only have 13 fights, I want to fight the best and Randall Bailey is one of the best. He is a former two-time champion, you don’t get better than that. So I’m not gonna say I’m the best prospect in boxing but I’m definitely the best one at 147 pounds.

IF: So quality, not quantity. Going back to when you said you got robbed it obviously had a profound impact on you.

IS: I was at the wrong place, at the wrong time, doing things I shouldn’t have been doing. Playing dice with people I didn’t know, and they kind of just set me up, stuck the gun to my head and took my money. It’s things like that I look back on like, ‘Man, I really could have been dead, that guy could have pulled the trigger.’ All it takes is one trigger and I wouldn’t be sitting on the phone with you doing this interview and nobody would know who Ishe Smith is. I would have been long forgotten. But it’s things like that that made me realize my purpose in life and made me really work hard in boxing and leave my legacy in this sport. I want to be remembered. I want people to miss me when I’m gone. I want people to say, ‘Man, I wish he was fighting,’ when I’m, old, and when I’m going to fights. I want them to say, ‘Man, I wonder what it would have been like if Ishe Smith fought this guy.’ That’s what I do this for and I do it for my family. It’s not about the money. I just do it because I want to take care of my family and, most importantly, I just want to be remembered for my hard work and have the fans say man he was a great fighter.

IF: Talking about the Bailey fight now, you’ve acknowledged that he’s got a lot of power. How are you planning on countering it?

IS: I think that I’ve got one of the best young coaches in boxing, Danny Smith. He’s been helping a lot of people. Ever since I’ve been with him it’s been great. He picked me up around my sixth fight and every fight has been great. So [Bailey] has power, we know that. What he doesn’t know is I have power too. I’m a dangerous body puncher. He doesn’t know how much power I’ve got, but he knows I’m a dangerous body puncher so we’re going to see January 15th. If he wants a war, we can have a war, but I know I can punch. I know I’ve got more skills than him, and I know I’m just an all-around better fighter than him. He’s going to have to swing for the fences to even have a chance.

IF: I know that it’s one fight a time and you can’t look past Bailey, but what are you thinking for the future?

IS: I’m thinking either [Andrew] “Six Heads” Lewis or Jose Rivera. That’s what I’m thinking. That’s what I want. That’s who I want either on HBO or Showtime. ShoBox has been great it’s been a great run, but this is the type of fight that propels you into stardom. I’m ready to be the first born and raised Las Vegan to win the title, and carry the torch. I just want to fight the best.

IF: All right Ishe, on behalf of InsideFighting thank you very much.

IS: Thank you.

We’d like to thank Ishe Smith for taking time on New Year’s Day to sit down and talk with InsideFighting.

Touch of Sleep Talks (Part 1 of 2)

By Derek Callahan

01/02/2004

DaVarryl ‘Touch of Sleep’ Williamson is probably best known for his shocking first round knockout loss to rising star ‘Baby Joe’ Mesi. But Williamson is no stranger to the fight game. With serious heavyweight power in his right hand and a chin that experts question, Williamson will soon get more shots at stardom against contenders or rising stars. Anyone who sleeps on Touch of Sleep may very well find themselves waking up to smelling salts shortly after the bell rings. Willimson was supposed to challenge for the NABF heavyweight title this Friday night. But due to a foot injury suffered by NABF interim champion Eliecer Castillo (25-3-2 13 KOs), his title bout has been postponed. Williamson will now face Kendrick Releford (8-3-1 5 KOs) on the card. Warriors Boxing already has plans to reschedule Castillo vs Williamson sometime in mid-March.

Inside Fighting: Okay DaVarryl, let’s start at the beginning, what first got you into boxing, what did you like about it?

DaVarryl Williamson: I guess as a kid, boxing’s always been a passion of mine. I thought I saw my career, in terms of professional, on the football field or the basketball court but once I got into college and felt like I exhausted all of my resources as it pertains to football, I picked up boxing and got it going, and was pretty good at it.

IF: Have you had any reservations about entering the fight game?

DW: Well I didn’t because I felt like I was an accomplished amateur fighter and a lot of the fighters that fought with me as amateurs, they moved onto pro and I stayed as an amateur to finish up some schooling, and also to get better so that when I became a pro I wouldn’t have to go through that long process of building those talents or skills.

IF: How has knowing that you’ve been through school and are an educated man helped you in your fight career?

DW: Any time you prepare for life after sports I think you have minimized the risk. Hopefully you can leave this game with all of the faculties that you came in with and continue to apply some of those same things you did in school and college. If it was a work-study, a practicum or an internship experience, and you can apply those things in a professional field than you’ll be okay. Boxing is something where you go ahead and you’re using boxing, boxing is using your body, soul and mind, but at the end you want to have the exposure whereas you’re a commodity in the community and in the business industry. If you’re successful in the ring hopefully a company will say, “Hey, you were successful doing this, this and this, maybe you can come in, run my company and continue that success.” Everybody loves a winner because the winner always seems to have the same formula: hard work, hard work, hard work, and those types of things. I guess that’s the way I see that.

IF: On a personal level, how does the work ethic it takes to succeed in boxing translate into other areas of your life?

DW: Some of the work ethics and work habits I’ve got for boxing I developed through basketball and school; the study process and preparation. Preparation is key. To be successful in anything is being able to take advantage of those opportunities that present themselves. Opportunities will present themselves but you’ve got to be armed with enough degrees, certificates, or something to accept some of those job offers or some of those openings. When the doors are there you’ve got to be there to kick them open. You can’t say, “Ah, well, I um…I didn’t pass the drug test, or I didn’t pass the written test…” do you follow me? Preparation, preparation, preparation, I can’t overemphasize being prepared for success. You never dress for the job you have, you dress for the job you want, look to where you see yourself in the long shot, in the long run, rather than, “What am I doing right now? I know that I’m going door to door passing out flyers, but this is temporary while I’m in school, going through a transitional state, and this is my real gig right here. This is what I want to do once I get on my feet.”

IF: With preparation there is no fear, I know exactly what you mean. Now in boxing of course the object is to take a guy out, do your job before he has a chance to do his job. Did you have to overcome the mere thought of needing to put a hurt on someone?

DW: I guess I didn’t have any reservations about being in boxing because I was heavily involved in football, and you know that football is a contact sport. People don’t come to the arenas to watch, Jerry Rice or Joe Montana throw and catch a touchdown, they come to see people get hit. When Jerry Rice gets a touchdown, people applaud him but when someone sticks their helmet in someone else’s chest and they get a good hit or hit the running back, you hear the crowd go, “Whoo!” That’s what people want to see. They want to see somebody get hit. It’s a raw feeling from within that helps motivate me to be the first person on the job. Hit them before they hit you.

IF: I thought of this question while reading a book on Muhammad Ali. How important is it to promote yourself outside of the ring, to bring a personality to the sport?

DW: I think it’s so critical because boxing is like the free enterprise business. It’s not like basketball or football. We don’t have a boxer’s union or fraternity. You get what you can get for yourself. There’s nothing that says why Oscar de la Hoya, Felix Trinidad and Mike Tyson are making so much more money than other fighters. Some are doing good, most not so good. It depends on what kind of thing you want to portray and what it is about you that will sell. I think it’s very important to be articulate, to convey yourself to the public. A lot of people are a lot like you and just haven’t been able to share their story. The privilege is boxing has helped me to be me. I have a survivor story that other people can relate to because they were the underdog, they were always short. There’s a lot more people that are unsuccessful, who came up short for this and came up short for that, then there are people who were always successful; always did this, always did that. You’re always going to have more people who will be able to embrace you because of your shortcomings and they’ll be rooting for you because you’re a genuine person.

IF: Like Rocky Balboa.

DW: Like Rocky Balboa.

IF: (laughs) I hate to say that being that he’s obviously not a real person, but he’s pretty close to it.

DW: He was real to the screen, to Hollywood. There are a number of people like Rocky that the world can get behind because he’s the long shot. He was Seabiscuit. The general public, they like the underdog. They like winners, but if it’s somebody they can relate to, then they’re more than happy to pull and push for that person.

IF: Tell me about yourself, how are you an underdog?

DW: I would say, there’s a commercial out there that Michael Jordan is in, and they show him dunking the basketball, and he’s talking to the camera, saying he’s missed so many shots, how many times he’s come up short, and this is why he succeeds. This is the same reason. There are so many doors not able to be opened, so many situations when I was not the chosen one, I did not make the team I did not do well, and this is why this raw, is within my body to do very well and suffer. Not making it to the NFL, not making it to the NBA, not making it to Division–1 college basketball or football, not doing this, not doing that all these nots. So if you turn these somewhat negatives into positives, turn around these shortcomings and long shots then you’re able to prosper. That’s the reason why a person of my stature is so hungry to want to excel and succeed so badly.

IF: To use failure for fuel, I see what you’re saying. Talking about the correlation between the mind and body for a boxer, what would you say comes first for you?

DW: I would say definitely the mind because all the fighters, we hit the bags the same amount of rounds, we spar the same amount of rounds, we run the same amount of miles approximately. We do a lot of the same push-ups, weight training, the protein stuff, we do a lot of those things similarly. What makes me different and successful is my mind. Being able to outthink these other guys in the ring under those kinds of pressures, under those cameras and lights. I think the mind comes first before the body because your mind gets your body through these things. So I can run twelve more laps, under these circumstances I can push through, I gotta bite down. You talk to yourself to make it happen. If you make it happen in your mind your body can do it because your mind’s telling it to.

IF: How do you train each [body and mind] differently?

DW: I guess obviously each person is different. Each mind is definitely different in confidence. The way I train my mind is thinking of the things you’ve been successful with where you didn‘t have a shot. You didn’t have a shot in the dark to accomplish what you’ve accomplished. You have to remember that, believe in that and say, “Hey, I’m gonna continue to remain focused and not get too far up or too far down.” You try to stay in the middle with your mentality. If things are bad for you, don’t make them really bad, if they’re really good, don’t make it all that good and say, “I’m surviving, I’m doing well and I’m able to relax a little.” Don’t bust your arm patting yourself on your back because there’s good news and bad news. What’s the good news? You won the fight. The bad news is you’ve got to keep on fighting. You gotta find a happy medium, you gotta balance in harmony.

IF: When you say good news you won the fight, bad news you keep on fighting did you mean that literally with your ring battles or metaphorically?

DW: It’s metaphorically because life goes on. Yeah, you graduated or you’re doing very well in this. Say you wrote an awesome article that was awesome, the editors and everybody were all, “Attaboy Derek,” but you know what I mean? You want to continue to live where you’re living; you’ve got a motivation to produce an article just as good if not better. There’s always that carrot dangling in front of you for more. For your kids, your wife, everyone wants you to excel. If you succeed, they succeed.

IF: Talking about the Joe Mesi fight, what went wrong for you in that bout and what have you learned from it?

DW: I’ve learned that I can never underestimate any of my opponents. I cannot overlook anyone. I think what happened with Mesi is I overlooked him. I practically raised the guy in the amateur boxing ring and he had gotten better. If you watch the Monte Barrett/Joe Mesi fight you didn’t see anything special. He’s an okay fighter the first five rounds and the last five rounds he’s average, he’s below average so I really shot myself in the foot with that fight. My mind is a strong component to my success. I allowed my mind to drift away from the task at hand, and because of that I lost miserably right in the lights, the cameras and the action. That would be my main thing for the Joe Mesi fight. I prepared very, very well in terms of watching film and conditioning myself but I looked past the fight.

IF: Real quick now, tell me about your favorite and least favorite part of being in the fight game.

DW: My favorite part of the fight game is the actual boxing match itself. Touching gloves, because you have so many people who are either viewing it, or come out to the arenas to see you do your craft, to see you go to work. They appreciate what you do and you appreciate them for taking interest in your career. That is the part you can’t put a price on. The least favorite part is dealing with the BS of the politics. Not always the best guy gets the best job. It’s not just boxing it goes into the magazines, the columns, whatever websites. It’s just in life. It’s unfortunate but that’s just the way life is and we hope and pray that things will change but so long as you have humans involved, there’s always gonna be politics and things like that. Money, greed, wealth and fame – all that good stuff is incorporated. It’s a part I really dislike. In terms of the fighters, they’re good people. You’re going to have a few bad apples but for the most part, as a whole, the majority of the fighters are very, very good people. They want to work hard and they want to excel, but everybody can’t win every night and that’s the way it goes. It’s a tough way to make a living

Touch of Sleep Talks (Part 2 of 2)

By Derek Callahan

01/04/2004

IF: Okay, you’re 35 now, but have only had 20 pro fights so you are really just in the prime of your pro career. What kind of pressure is there to reach that big payday, get that title shot before the new generation sets in?

DW: I don’t think there’s any pressure. I think the only pressure is that which you put on yourself. Whether you’re 35, 39, or whatever, it’s dependant on your health and your physical ability to perform. Let’s look at Bernard Hopkins for a second. (laughs) Is he getting better!? You tell me. At 39, he may be 40 years old. He may have lied, he could be 41, we don’t know. He spent time in prison. We don’t know how old he really is. On record, he’s 39, but he’s spanking these guys; these kids, and he’s getting better. I’m probably one of those ones like Bernard Hopkins. I haven’t abused my body in no shape, form, or fashion throughout my life. I can’t tell you that six months I smoked weed eight months I drank beer. I don’t do any of it. I haven’t done any of it. I can’t tell you what it feels like to be drunk. I can’t tell you what it feels like to be overweight. I can’t tell you what it feels like. I’ve never been there. Therefore, I’ve always taken care of myself. I’ve taken myself through the college institutions. In terms of the diet, I was always on the football or basketball team so I’m always able to eat like an athlete and watch my body. I was able to be on the food table, the grilled chickens, stuff like that. I’ve been very, very blessed.

IF: Right. After the Mesi fight, the knock a lot of guys put on you was your lack of defensive skills. Did you feel your defense wasn’t where it should have been, or was that just outsiders not knowing what’s what?

DW: There are always things you can get better at offensively and defensively. So long as you’re in this sport there are always things you can do better. Yes I think that I could have done things better defensively for the Joe Mesi fight. It probably would have gotten out of the first round, allowed me to maybe shake off some of the cobwebs or shake off some of the adrenaline from the crowd, from the noise, the event itself. Just getting back to that corner after the first round, I think things would have turned around considerably. But that’s neither here nor there because it didn’t happen. I think I can improve on my offense I can improve on my defense as well. You can always get better. Sometimes people may say, “Hey a great offense is a good defense” because people are not thinking about hitting you, they’re thinking about protecting themselves because you’re hitting them. Some people are able to weather the storm or perceive openings when you are throwing punches and see your mistakes. There’s no magical answer to come up with and say, “Hey, my offense needs development my defense needs development. Maybe my defense needs more than the offense.” It’s growing pains and learning pains. I was fortunate enough that I’m still here to do very well.

IF: And you get to fight on another day.

DW: That’s it.

IF: Looking forward now to Eliecer Castillo. What’s this bout mean to you now approaching the fight?

DW: Oh it’s huge. It’s another fight, but I think this is…Castillo and I were supposed to fight in October of 2002. My dad was deathly ill, and I eventually lost him.

IF: Ah I’m sorry.

DW: I had to pull out of that fight, so this is a fight that was really made a year ago. We’re getting the opportunity to do the things we both would have done a year or so ago.

IF: What kind of strategy will you be bringing into the ring?

DW: The strategy would be to utilize my height and my reach advantage, he’s a very aggressive fighter. He’s a gambler, he’s gonna try some things. I’ll be tested. I’ll be tested offensively, I’ll be tested defensively. I’ll be tested in terms of my endurance. He’s never flabby or fat; he’s always in tip-top shape. I’m going twelve rounds.

IF: Interesting you mention the length since it is a title fight. What kind of pressure is added now that the NABF belt is on the line?

DW: I don’t know if it adds any pressure. You don’t worry about that, Derek. Yes, that’s important and a very good strategic element in terms of me accepting the fight, but not in the concepts of whose going to win this fight. I told you I made that mistake with the Joe Mesi fight. I got ahead of myself and I shouldn’t have. You can’t get ahead of yourself; you’ve got to stay focused on just the fight. Win the fight, they’re gonna give you the belt, they’re gonna give you the money, whatever comes with it, but you can’t worry about that. That’s the least of my worries right now. My worry is getting back in this win column. If this fight goes twelve rounds it goes twelve. I want to be the man whose hand’s raised at the end of the fight. Once you win, then you let those people who I mentioned earlier, let those guys jockey for positions, rankings and whatever comes with it. You know who you can compete with, you know yourself and you deal with it from that aspect.

IF: You mentioned before that you’re freelancing as a fighter. What kind of extra work comes with fighting away from a promotional umbrella?

DW: When it all boils down to this, Derek; you have to fight. There’s a guy in the red corner, guy in the blue corner. Whose promoting who, whose banner, all that stuff, that doesn’t even matter because it‘s insignificant. When the bell rings, all you gotta concentrate on is, “I’m in the ring with this guy, and there’s another guy in the ring, the referee.” Sometimes it’s nice to have a promoter because your promoter has ties with HBO, ties with Showtime, ESPN and you’re more likely to be on TV. This fight right here could definitely be an ESPN2 main event, definitely. I’ve made my bed with my loss in the Joe Mesi fight for whatever reasons and I have to sleep in it. You kind of got to prove yourself again and that’s okay. I know that I’m a good fighter; a great fighter and I’ve got to reiterate that. Have the writers, the critics, say, “Man! Did you see DaVarryl in his last fight?” Which DaVarryl’s going to show up, we don’t know.

IF: So how’d you get the name ‘Touch of Sleep”?

DW: A very good friend of mine, his name is Lawrence Clay-Bey, he’s a heavyweight as well, he gave me the nickname because he represented the United States Olympic team as a super-heavyweight in 1996. I was his primary sparring partner. I was calling myself ‘DJ’ for Dangerous Jab, and also my name is DaVarryl Jerome so it could be for DaVarryl Jerome or Dangerous Jab, and he said, “Maybe you should call yourself ’Touch of Sleep’ since you hit so hard,” and it’s a name I really enjoy, and I just kept I. I’ve been working ever since like 1995, ’96.

IF: I didn’t realize you were friends with Clay-Bey, could even be a potential match-up?

DW: (laughs) I hope not. That’s one person that I do not want to fight.

IF: On a skill-level or for friendship?

DW: For friendship. That’s the only real thing I have in the entire fight game is, I do not want to fight Lawrence Clay-Bey.

IF: The one fight you had on HBO with Mesi, millions saw it. How does it make you feel being on such a grand stage?

DW: I feel like I’m cursed with HBO for some reason (laughs). Last time I was on HBO I was in the amateurs. I was fighting in New York in Madison square Garden and I was fighting a Cuban dude, Felix Hermone, and I lost to him in the first round with a kayo. That was an exciting fight for however long it lasted, and it was tough. I can’t get ahead of myself. I gotta think about just the guy. It’s a swell platform to be on when the world’s watching you, but you’ve got to throw punches, block punches, and execute whether it’s the backwoods of Bob’s Barnyard or the stage of New York City, Madison Square Garden, or the main event of an HBO pay-per-view.

IF: All on an even keel. Castillo was able to get the best of Clay-Bey when they fought, do you feel any emotion going into this bout knowing that he beat your friend?

DW: No because it’s just business. Lawrence Clay-Bey and Castillo are friends as well. They were sparring partners out here in Colorado when they were both under the promotion of America Presents. As a matter of fact Castillo has eaten dinner and watched fights at my house personally. I know who Castillo is, he knows who I am. My wife has some Puerto Rican descent, and so it was easy because he felt comfortable since there were some Spanish-speaking people that he could communicate with. We’ve gone to dinner together, we’ve hung out; he’s a nice guy. But business is business and we both want to win this particular night.

IF: Right. I know it’s one step at a time and it’s ill advised to look beyond, but what kind of plans do you have for your future?

DW: That is my biggest thing. I cannot get ahead. I have no idea. After Castillo, my wife and I are having a vacation we needed just the two of us, we’re not taking the kids. We’re just going to go and let our hair down. After the Castillo fight that’s all I see. Everything’s gonna work itself out. Hopefully good things will work out.

IF: Best of luck DaVarryl.

DW: I appreciate it.

Lindland sets lofty goals for Sportfight

By Michael DiSanto

01/08/2004

On Saturday night, Matt Lindland and Randy Couture will present the eighth installment of Sportfight. Titled Justice, the mixed martial arts event features a 13-fight card, including seven professional bouts, and will take place at Mt. Hood Community College in Gresham, Oregon.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop right there. Sportfight? What in the world is Sportfight?

For starters, it is a small, but growing, regional MMA promotion out of the Pacific Northwest. But with all the small, regional promotions out there like Mass Destruction, Rage in the Cage, Hook-n-Shoot, King of the Cage, Gladiator Challenge, and a myriad of others, what makes this upstart MMA promotion different?

“It is the most entertaining MMA event out there,” said Sportfight Chief Executive Officer Matt Lindland. “To be honest with you, it’s one of the most entertaining sporting events that I’ve ever been to. The first couple of shows I didn’t get to enjoy how good they actually were (because I was working the event). Now I’ve got the show more streamlined with everything handled properly so I get to sit back and watch the show. It really is an entertaining event.”

Entertaining, yes, but also highly competitive. Lindland and his team work tirelessly in an attempt give the fans the best possible fights between the best fighters available, given their current budgetary constraints.

“I obviously don’t have the same budget as Pride,” Lindland explained. “But I get the best fighters out of the Northwest. And then I get one or two fights on each of my cards that could make it on any card in the world.”

So far, it seems to be working. After 19 months and seven shows, Sportfight is drawing about 3000 fans per event, which is a solid turnout for a local show. But Lindland isn’t satisfied with just being a local promotion with the typical small event budgetary restraints. He envisions something more for Sportfight.

Lindland, a top 185-lb fighter, can now add “successful promoter” to his MMA resume

Generating significant revenue aside from gate receipts, however, is ultra challenging for promoters of MMA events. The traditional avenues of DVD sales and pay-per-view television broadcasts are a very tough road to travel because of the costly national branding and marketing necessary to convince a casual MMA fan in San Francisco to purchase an event held in Oregon consisting of mainly fighters from the Pacific Northwest – names the SF fan might not recognize.

Lindland, therefore, wants to remove cost from the equation for the fan in San Francisco, which means landing a deal with one of the numerous national cable or sports networks for a weekly television show.

“We’re shooting (Sportfight) for television,” he said. “We’re going to be ready in two weeks to launch our first 13-week season for television. That’s really unique for someone to pitch a television show to executives at networks.

“Normally, you pitch an idea to the executives. What I’ve done is put all of our money back into the production for the television show. That allows us to go into a network with a full season of television ready to go. All we have to do is add the voice-overs and we’re done, and we’re already in production for our second season, as well.”

Landing Sportfight as weekly one-hour (or whatever) show on network television is certainly appears to be a very lofty goal. But Lindland is quick to mention that other niche sports like bowling, bass fishing, dodge ball and ping pong are able to land network deals, so why not Sportfight?

If such a deal is reached, DVD and PPV revenue won’t be necessary as sponsors will come out of the woodworks with their checkbooks. Then, Lindland will have the platform and the money to build his promotion into a major feeder school (or last-level farm system) for the UFC and Pride.

“If the major promotions really want the top fighters, then we’re going to have next tier of guys ready to go into that level,” he said. “If you are a Sportfight champ, then you’re probably ready to fight in the UFC or Pride.”

Lindland has lofty goals, for sure. But the Olympic silver medalist and his fellow Sportfight executive Randy Couture, who holds so many UFC firsts that there is no room to mention them here, are accustomed to turning seemingly impossible goals into realities.

Do you want to bet against them achieving their goals? I don’t.

Exclusive Interview: Can Baby Joe steal the show?

By Michael DiSanto

03/02/2004

America’s love affair with rising heavyweight sensation “Baby Joe” Mesi continues next Saturday as he faces the highly skilled, and extremely durable, Vassily Jirov on HBO. Many pundits, including myself, believe that Mesi is simply too big and strong for the former cruiserweight champion. But Mesi is not taking his opponent lightly. Instead, he is working extremely hard in order to put on a dominating performance in front of the millions of boxing fans who will be tuning in. This may very well be Mesi’s last fight before a planned outdoor bonanza in the summer against box office king Mike Tyson or a possible shot at a piece of the heavyweight crown.

We caught up with Joe during his final preparations to discuss the fight and more. Let’s get right to it!

InsideFighting: Joe, tell me how training camp has been these past few weeks.

Joe Mesi: It’s going very well. We began training in Buffalo, and we got out of Buffalo because of the weather and cold temperatures. Then we went to Tulsa, Oklahoma for 3 weeks. Now, we’re now in Las Vegas. We’re going to finish out camp here, and we’ll be ready to go at the Mandalay Bay on March 13th.

IF: How do you prepare differently for a guy moving up from cruiserweight compared to preparing for a big heavyweight?

Mesi: It’s really not much different. We’re still working on all the same techniques that I need to work on. You know, defense and stuff like that. The only real difference is that we’re boxing a southpaw, so sparring partners are left handed. That’s the only major difference.

IF: How comfortable are you boxing a southpaw? As I look back at your career, you’ve only faced a handful of them.

Mesi: Even throughout my amateur and professional careers, I’ve only faced a handful of southpaws. I’m kind of inexperienced when it comes to left-handed guys, but I’ve adapted very quickly. The sparring has been great. I’ve adjusted, so I’m actually feeling very comfortable and very confident.

IF: Joe, what was your motivation for taking Jirov as an opponent? I know there were other guys on the table, and HBO obviously played a part in the decision. Jirov moving up from cruiserweight adds an element of intrigue, so talk to me about the choice of opponent.

Mesi: The only names I heard from HBO were Michael Moorer or Jirov, so I it wasn’t going to be anything but a left-handed guy [<i>Joe says as we both laugh</i>]. My theory, and I think along with HBO’s theory, was to fight the younger, fresher guy. I don’t know. If I’d blown out Moorer or if I ahd gone the distance with him, I’d have been criticized either way due to his age and all that. Jirov is a much younger, fresher and, I think, more durable fighter. He’s a warrior. He certainly deserves a lot of respect. The guy has sparred with heavyweights his entire career, so he’ll come in at a good weight. I think that this win will mean more than me fighting several other guys.

IF: I completely agree with you.

Mesi: I’m pretty sure there are a lot of heavyweights out there who wouldn’t want to take this fight.

IF: I agree. James Toney hit this guy with everything under the moon and he stood in front of him until the last moments of the fight.

Mesi: That’s right.

IF: So he’s clearly a durable opponent. Jirov owns an 88% knockout ratio at cruiserweight. Is his punching power a concern for you as he moves up to heavyweight?

Mesi: It’s not something that concerns me. With anyone I fight, I can’t worry about their percentages or knockout rates. I mean, I have to be thinking about it because any human who weighs over 200 pounds can knock another man out. I don’t care what the weight division is called. He’s got quick hands. He’s a lighter guy. I understand that he’s got pretty decent power and good body shots, so that all has to be kept in mind. Any man over 200 pounds can knock another man out, so I’ll have to be cautious in that sense.

IF: When I watched Jirov-Toney, it became apparent to me that Jirov is a straight ahead fighter who has to come forward to be successful. He seems lost when you back him up. When you look at Jirov as a fighter, what are your thoughts?

Mesi: Well, without giving too much away, I’ve been studying a lot of film on Jirov. In the old days, he was a little more of a boxer. I think he can do both. I’m not going to say which way I think he’s better. But I’m prepared for anything. I’m prepared for someone to come and put pressure on. I’m prepared for someone to show me a little movement. That’s going to be all fine and dandy with me. I really don’t think he’s seen anyone like me. I think I’m stronger than Toney. I’m a relatively quick heavyweight. And I’ll be a much different fighter than he saw against Monte Barrett.

IF: Sounds good. Let’s talk about the day of the fight. Talk to me about your emotions, your routine, your thoughts, the whole nine yards.

Mesi: I pretty much do the same thing every day before a fight. I try to get a little rest – try to sleep a little later than usual. I eat a sensible breakfast. I visit a local Catholic church. Then the rest of the day is a lot of mental preparation. You know, a lot of visualization, listening to music, maybe watching a couple tapes of my opponent without doing too much, and a lot of rest. Also, I’ll have several proper meals. That’s pretty much it. I listen to a lot of music, relax and go to the arena.

IF: When do the emotions really turn on – when you go to the arena or when you start to warm-up?

Mesi: I try to stay very relaxed throughout the whole day. Everyone has butterflies, so there’s really no sense in worrying about something that is going to happen later in the day, weeks, months or what have you. So the emotions really start running right about warm-up time when you start getting more intense and focused.

IF: What are your thoughts about sharing a card with Shane Mosley versus Winky Wright, and also about fighting for the first time at the Mandalay Bay, which is a great venue?

Mesi: Well, first off, those are two of the best fighters in the world right now. I think that’s going to be a very competitive fight. I’m honored to be on the same card as Shane Mosley and Winky Wright. I remember I fought on the same card as Shane Mosley in El Paso, Texas in my second or third pro fight. Even then I thought it was pretty cool because I was following Shane’s career. To be fighting at the Mandalay Bay in Vegas, this is my first fight in Vegas, believe it or not! Coming off a Madison Square Garden fight, it seems as if things just keep getting bigger and better each fight. Every fighter in the world would love to fight in the Garden. Every fighter in the world would love to fight on the Las Vegas strip and at the Mandalay Bay. Things are just opening up more and more for me. You know, things are just getting better and better with each win.

IF: What does Lennox Lewis’ retirement from the sport mean 1) to you as a heavyweight contender, and 2) to the heavyweight division as a whole?

Mesi: There’s a part of me and a part of everybody that would have loved to maybe see to see a rematch with him and Vitali. But you’ve got to put yourself in his shoes. He’s been a great champion. He’s done what everyone has asked him to do. He’s beaten everyone that we’ve wanted him to fight, including the people who’ve beaten him. He’s a very respectful champion inside and outside of the ring. I think at his age that he’s doing it right. He’s retiring at the top, which is something that many, MANY fighters should have done. So I respect his decision. And I hope he enjoys his retirement. As far as the division goes, it certainly opens things up. I believe he was the best. He was at the top. I don’t know how much longer it would have stayed that way. That’s why I’m glad he retired. But now there’s certainly some openings and some competition with the Klitschko brothers, Corrie Sanders, Ruiz, Roy Jones and all those guys at the top. So there’s plenty of work to be done on my part.

IF: I’m not asking you to look past Vassily Jirov. But let’s assume that things unfold in your favor on March 13th. Is it still the goal to follow this fight up with a mega bout at Ralph Wilson Stadium this summer?

Mesi: That would be the goal, yes. If we get by March 13th, like we plan on, then we are really hoping, HBO is really hoping, Ralph Wilson Stadium, the Buffalo Bills, and the people of Buffalo are hoping for a big outdoor splash. A big fight in Buffalo (Western New York), home of the Buffalo Bills in July or August. The opponent would be “to be announced.” Ideally, it would be a big name like a Mike Tyson, Corrie Sanders, a Klitschko, Ruiz or someone like that. But first things first, March 13th.

IF: Absolutely. Joe, is there any last message that you’d like to send to your fans? Also, tell the MMA fans why they should tune into HBO boxing on March 13th.

Mesi: I’d like to thank all of the supporters of my career, of course. Also, people should tune into HBO boxing on March 13th because I think you’re going to see two very competitive fighters and two very competitive styles in Jirov and myself. It should be a very exciting fight, so we’ll see who is going to last. And we’ll see who can possibly be the future of the heavyweight division.

IF: Okay, my man. Joe, stay healthy during these last few days of training. Good luck to you. And we’ll talk with you after the fight.

Mesi: Great. Thanks a lot.

Gerry Cooney: “A little bit of me died in there that night”

By Derek Callahan

03/08/2004

On Saturday night, Baby Joe Mesi, an Italian-American heavyweight, will once again perform under the grand lights of HBO Boxing. As the fight approaches, the label of “”Great White Hope”" dominates discussions about Mesi and his fight against former cruiserweight champion Vassily Jirov. Fair or unfair, it is reality.

Well, 22 years ago, another white heavyweight faced a very similar situation to what Joe faces now. In 1982, an undefeated Irish-American boxer slammed his way through the ranks as he dominated mostly non-descript opposition. His impressive record and murderous left hook earned Gerry Cooney got a shot at the World Heavyweight Champion, Larry Holmes. Or did it?

Just like with Mesi, the label of “”Great White Hype”" dominated the pre-fight Holmes-Cooney headlines. Racial lines were drawn in the sand and things got ugly. People stated that he received the shot against Holmes solely because of Cooney’s skin color.

In the end, Larry Holmes won the fight, but both Holmes and Cooney are winning the war called life. Accordingly, we thought it would be great to catch-up with the former world title challenger to talk about being labeled a “”White Hope,”" life after boxing and more.

Inside Fighting: Right off the bat then, beginning at the beginning, I was curious about what your initial attraction to boxing was.

Gerry Cooney: My initial attraction to boxing was my oldest brother Tom picked it up at a young age and he left the house when I was like 15, so I used to go to the local YMCA and watch him train. I used to watch him workout. Then I had a heavy bag in my basement when I was a kid. I used to punch the bag, and then I finally went to the gym to be with him.

IF: Okay, you need that real killer instinct in the ring, where did yours come from and how were you able to hone it?

GC: Survival. If you look at it like the old days, when the bell rings in boxing, it’s like two gladiators. He has a knife and I have a knife. When the bell rings, my job’s to get him with the knife first. It’s a skill, kind of like tunnel vision where you see the punches before they even happen and you’re able to land a punch and put the guy where he needs to be in order to make that happen. I call it tunnel vision, and it’s the most fun when you’re at that level.

IF: It’s ironic how we’re talking about the brutality involved with boxing, yet you somehow got the nickname, ‘Gentleman.’ How did that come about?

GC: Well I always help people. I grew up with a rough background and didn’t have any help growing up so as I got older, I liked to help people and I think it was a fitting name. Really what happened was that I worked at a gas station when I was 17 and this guy by the name of Harry Bowlhoffer gave me the name ‘Gentleman’ Gerry from the old Gentleman Jim Corbett movie.

IF: Let’s talk about your shot at the heavyweight title. Did all the hype, the ‘White Hope’ stuff, affect you at all?

GC: You know what, I never paid attention to it. It was out there, a lot of ugliness and a lot of ignorance in that black/white kind of thing, and I think it was all really summed up. Larry Holmes and I are in the center of the ring and the referee is giving us our instructions. Larry looks at me and says, “Hey, let’s have a good fight.” That’s what the whole black and white deal was…there wasn’t any. It was two athletes, me trying to grab his title and him trying to hang onto it. That’s what it came down to. I had no space in my life for that. I never listened to it at all.

IF: How do you think it helped you that you were able to tune out the hype?

GC: The whole thing is that experience is experience. When I fought for the heavyweight championship, I was 25-0, and I think I had 22 knockouts. I really didn’t have the experience that I needed [for that fight]. I needed to have two or three more fights with top-10 guys, so I would’ve been better prepared when I got in the ring with Larry Holmes. But also, I gained experience by being in the fight [itself].

IF: Trial by fire.

GC: I made some mistakes with my management. [Don] King wasn’t part of my life. I refused to sign with him because when you sign with him you had to do what he wanted, when he wanted you to do it and [he decided] how much you got paid. I thought slavery was dead, so I stayed on my own and became the number one contender. But I had to wait 13 months to get a championship fight.

That reminds me of my favorite fighter of all time, Jake LaMotta, and how the mob made him wait for a title shot. Tell me what your thoughts were about fighting Larry [Holmes], and also what you thought about the fight itself.

GC: Well, that’s a good question. It was the first time in my career where I really didn’t like [my opponent] because of all the distasteful things he was saying and because of what was going on. It was the first time I went into the fight feeling, “I just want to hit him with a good shot.” Of course, I had some plans. When you go into a ring to fight, you’ve got to have Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C. Then as the rounds go on you make variations of those three or four [plans] that you have made up in your mind. I knocked out Ken Norton in May of 1981, and I didn’t fight again until June of 1982, so it was like a 13-month layoff. I talked to a Hall of Fame pitcher and I said, “If you don’t pitch for 13 months and then they throw you into the World Series, how well are you gonna pitch?” That’s what Don King did. He kept me out of the picture for 13 months and then he gave me a shot at the title. So I wasn’t as prepared as I could have been.

IF: After the Holmes fight, how come you fought so infrequently?

GC: I felt kind of disappointed. It seemed like my managers couldn’t get along. I was always in the middle of those guys, and I just kind of got disheartened with the loss. I didn’t really plan on losing, and I just kind of got depressed for a while and disappeared. Rather than having a manager that would have helped me work on my problems, they just kind of kept trying to get me back into the ring. So I was never really the same after the Holmes fight. A little of me died in there that night, you know what I mean?

IF: As far as enthusiasm and motivation to fight again?

GC: I just had two managers that were fighting all the time. I felt like I was in the middle of it. I lost the championship. The whole Don King situation was all crooked, and you couldn’t trust anybody. I didn’t get a fair outing, or so I felt, and that’s really basically what happened to me.

IF: I’d say my favorite Cooney fight is when you knocked out heavyweight contender Ron Lyle. It took Muhammad Ali 11 rounds, George Foreman 5, and you took him out in just 1 round. That fight caused him to retire for nearly 15 years. You obviously left an impression on him.

GC: Well he had come back for a payday to fight me. I was really in my prime, and he was a bunch of years older than me. He really trained and was in good shape, but there was no stopping me at that point in my career.

IF: You had a huge left hook. What made you favor that punch over other possible weapons?

GC: When we were kids, I saw my brother have a street fight. I saw him hit somebody with a left hook to the body and a left hook to the chin. It was such an impressive punch that it always stuck with me. I’m a southpaw. I’m really actually left-handed, but I fought right-handed so my left hand was always my power shot.

IF: Right. Did it benefit you that you fought orthodox but were really a lefty?

GC: Yes. I could slice and dice with my left hand.

IF: How do you feel you were different at the end of your career against guys like Foreman and Spinks as compared to earlier in your career?

GC: When I lost to Holmes, I kind of got sidetracked for a while. I got caught up in the bottle. I was drinking and not taking care of myself. There was never anything positive. When I fought Spinks, the fight took two years to finally happen. I didn’t really believe that the fight was going to take place, so I was not really in any kind of condition, mentally or physically, to be able to fight that night. For the Foreman fight, I had straightened out my life. I had stopped drinking totally for only like a year, so it was a little too early [to fight Foreman]. I had changed my life, wasn’t really prepared for [the fight]. Actually, Gil Clancy did a good job with me. He wanted me to box the guy, which was the right thing to do. But I’m a puncher. I caught Foreman in the first round with a good left hook to the body and a hook on the chin, and I got excited about it. Because I hadn’t fought in so long, my timing was off and I got caught with a good [counter] shot. In the heavyweight division, if anybody gets hit, they’re out. The thing that happened with Foreman, I trained proper, was in great shape, but I had to learn to turn the page. The biggest thing for an athlete to give up is the roar of the crowd, so I had to turn the page and realize, ‘Okay I’m not supposed to fight no more let me find what I’m supposed to do next.’

IF: How was the transition for you?

GC: At that point I was ready. I knew that I had to find something else to do. I made it a lifelong plan to start my foundation to help ex-fighters and help them with their path from the ring back to the real world. It has been a great experience.

IF: I’m definitely curious about FIST and how that came about.

GC: Well, fortunately for me, I held onto my money. But 99% of fighters don’t [save their money], so I’ve spoken to them through the years about the struggles you have getting out of the ring and how boxing, the very sport you love, turns it’s back on you once your game is over. Everybody loves a winner, but when you start losing nobody wants to know you no more. All those guys who are struggling needed help. I was fortunate to go through that same process, and I learned a lot about myself. But I wasn’t forced to go out an get a menial job. Most fighters have to go out and do that. So I went up to Washington to spend some time with a lobbying firm, and then I got back in the foundation when I moved out to Long Island in 1998 and we’ve been very successful since then.

IF: For those who may not be as familiar, what’s the basic overview of what it is exactly that you do for these fighters?

GC: Everything. Some people have alcohol abuse problems. They have medical problems. They have bills. They have children. No insurance. They haven’t been to school since before high school. Some have graduate high school, but they haven’t done anything with their lives form 17 to 30 or 35 and we have to get them caught up so they can be productive citizens and be job-ready. There’s such a variety of problems that people have.

IF: How do you think fighters can prevent themselves from needing your organization?

GC: That’s tough because you begin fighting at an early age, and you plan on becoming champion. You fight and you fight and the years go by, and at some point you realize, ‘Okay maybe I won’t be a champion, but I’ll be a main event fighter.’ After that you say, ‘maybe I’ll be a sparring partner.’ And the process keeps going on and they don’t know what to do next. No one teaches them about any other areas [of life]. Life is like a pie and there are six slices to the pie. You’ve got to fill yourself up with all those slices, and boxing keeps you from all of them but one. So they have to learn. It’s a never-ending process, but what I’m thinking is that we’re helping the older guys now, and in time the younger guys will hear about us and come to us before it’s time to get out [of boxing]. Then they can get that information so they don’t waste a lot of years doing the wrong thing.

IF: Going back to boxing a bit, I understand you still spar several rounds a week. Do you still get that competitive surge when you’re in the ring?

GC: No, but I teach it. I’ve got a few guys I box with. It’s a great form of conditioning. It’s a great tool for me to express myself and to feel good.

IF: Who are some fighters you admired and eventually modeled yourself after?

GC: There’s been so many. When I was a little kid, I loved Ali, Marciano and Louis. Jake LaMotta’s a big guy for me. I love that guy.

IF: Finally, what does your future hold?

GC: The sky is the limit! I’m working on a bunch of projects. I want to make my foundation grow nationwide and even worldwide at some point. I have some interesting business deals going on. I’m still involved in minor league baseball. I train orphan children twice a week. I work with the gang kids in Union County. You know, just a lot of different projects like that.

IF: Okay, Gerry, on behalf of InsideFighting, thanks a lot for your time.

GC: Thank you.

Hartzog: “I beat the sh_t out of Cabbage”

By Derek Callahan

03/09/2004

Not yet thirty years-old with 11 fights and 11 wins under his belt, Preston Hartzog is chugging along slow and steady up he heavyweight ranks, and even has a few MMA matches under his belt. See-sawing above and below 250 pounds, he’s got unexpectedly swift feet, and would rather juke and jive than take infamously hard heavyweight wallops. In a business where leeches suck worth from fighters, Hartzog’s biggest strength might be his support system, a brick foundation that includes former heavyweight champion Tony Tubbs and 30-year veteran trainer Jesse Reid. An army veteran and proud Louisiana native, Hartzog’s qualities as a person just might outweigh his current in-ring skills, and with is blunt wit and obvious candor, that may be his greatest strength.

With the Joe Mesi-Vassily Jirov fight rapidly approaching, we thought it would be a good time to talk to one of Hartzog, who is one of Mesi’s former sparring partners. Hartzog is impressed with Mesi and gives him high marks for punching power and conditioning. “”Joe Mesi,”" he said. “”Man, he can crack! He’s got a helluva left hook and great uppercut. He’s also got a very good left jab.”"

Hartzog said that Mesi’s disciplined training methods have a definite affect on everyone in camp. “”He’s a very positive influence. He trains his butt off, he really does. And, that makes everyone in camp work harder.”" Hartzog said he remembers watching Joe box at national tournaments when both were amateur boxers. “”We used to say that if we had to fight Joe Mesi we’d better be prepared.”" But Mesi and Hartzog never faced each other in competition.

Enough of Mesi, let’s talk about the 6′4″”, 270 pound Preston Hartzog!

InsideFighting: For fans that haven’t seen you yet, please describe yourself a bit as a fighter.

Preston Hartzog: Well, I’m more of a boxer. I don’t like to sit in there and bang. I think that’s totally wacko. I just like being outside and keeping my enemies at bay. If it comes to a point where I have to bang, I will. Sometimes you have to do that. I started out as a southpaw [and fought that way] my whole life. About two years ago, Tony Tubbs, the [former] heavyweight champion, converted me to right-hander. He started off the process and is taking a break [from training me] right now. He’s getting his life in order. Jesse Reid is polishing me off. He’s fully converted me now, but I was a southpaw for like 16 years.

IF: How was that transition for you?

PH: Tough.

IF: Please describe the challenges involved with making the transition.

PH: It was just really tough. I couldn’t really understand why I had to change, but the more I converted, the more I felt comfortable at right hander. I could feel my power more. I write with my right hand. I do everything with my right hand. I bat with my right hand, I played baseball and throw with my right hand. That was my true power. As for someone teaching me to be southpaw, maybe they felt it would give me a distinct advantage. I felt more comfortable at southpaw when I first started, but me being a right hander now makes me slap myself in the face and say, “Why in the hell weren’t you a right hander trying to make it to the Olympics?” I won a lot of medals in the amateurs, won a lot of championships in the army, I was the army champion and the armed forces champion. I won a lot of stuff in the amateurs, but I won it all as a southpaw and I’m trying to say, “Hell, maybe if I was a right hander I’d have had a better shot of going to the Olympics.” I shoulda, coulda, woulda. [<i>Laughs</i>] It kind of bothered about that because I’m so much better as a right-hander than I am as a southpaw. When I was a southpaw, I dragged my foot a lot - something was just off about my boxing ability. I improved, but I couldn’t improve fully. I always wondered why it took me so long to improve when it took others such a short time and I worked so hard. I finally realized, “Holy sh*t, I’m a natural right hander and never even knew it!” Thank God for Tony Tubbs and Jesse Reid. Jesse is doing a great job training me. We are very close. Tony Tubbs and I are really close. Tony’s like a father to me. He was one of the best heavyweights. Of course, nobody thinks that, but I think he was one of the best heavyweights of our time. He just had a little run-in with narcotics. I’m about 6’5” and right now I’m weighing 270. My weight, I’m gonna be cooling down to about 240. When I’m about 240, the people, the audience is going to see a dramatic improvement. I think I’m doing good, but I think they’re really going to see something when they see me at 240 lbs!

IF: Especially since you said you’re not much of a slugger, it’ll be easier to run around the ring.

PH: Exactly! I’ve been struggling with the weight problem since I was a kid. I was kind of a chubby kid. It’s a lifelong battle that I’ve accepted. My weight’s coming down. I just have to take it one day at a time. I mean, Rome wasn’t built in a day, right?

IF: Right, right. So you’re buddies with some elite wrestlers, right?

PH: A few. Dremiel Byers, who is still an Olympic candidate. He just lost to Rulon [Gardner]. I haven’t talked to him in a while, but I was in the Army with Dremiel. We were in the same unit together. We were in the World Class athlete program together in Colorado Springs. He’s a cool dude. I love that guy.

IF: Keeping with wrestling, I understand you participated in a mixed martial arts match. Talk about that for a moment.

PH: Yeah, actually those guys were the ones who actually helped me learn how to [fight] on the ground. It was about three years ago. I felt that I should give it a try just for the mere entertainment of it all. This was before I turned professional as a boxer, and I said, “If I want to do this, do it now.” I was kind of, not in limbo with my life, but I was kind of floating. I was moving out to L.A., and I was going back to school. So I said, “I want do to something really positive; I want to train for a no-holds-barred fight.” Whatever the turnout, whatever. If I win, I win. If I lose, I lose. But I’m gonna damn sure try to win. I fought this guy in Hawaii, he’s won in the UFC a couple times, Cabbage.

IF: You fought Cabbage!?

PH: Yeah and I beat the shit out of him too. I beat him in Hawaii. Everybody thought he was gonna beat me. I think they brought me in to lose figuring it would be a good win for Cabbage. You know, take me down and beat me, but it was totally the opposite. I worked with Joshua Hall. I grappled with a lot of wrestlers, and then I went to Los Angeles and started training with the Shark Tank. They taught me a lot of leg locks, how to survive, and how to open and close the guard. Then I worked with Ken Shamrock and he really helped me out. Ken Shamrock and Pete Mitchell, they really helped me out. They pretty much just beat the shit out of me. It was all on the ground, no standup. They really worked with me on the ground. I thought it was really cool to work with those guys in a totally different world besides boxing. I really benefited from it. Ken made me really happy. When I beat Cabbage, he called up the Shark Tank a couple days later and asked how I did. He was happy about it. I kind of wanted to fight for the Lion’s Den, but I knew that my love was boxing so I wanted to pursue that. I stood up the whole time with Cabbage. I out-punched Cabbage. He tried taking me down, but I didn’t let that happen. I would have survived [on the ground]; I had good training. I just beat him to the punch. They said it was a split decision. That was far from a split decision, that’s all I’ve got to say. I don’t believe everything that people write. That was not a split decision. He was a hometown boy and I’m sitting there saying, “This is bullsh*t!” I beat him unanimously. When he walked out of there, his head looked like a watermelon.

IF: That’s impressive! I saw that you fought MMA, but I just didn’t know against whom. Have you ever considered going back to MMA?

PH: There’s no money in it, man. I really don’t want to make that sound bad, I’m not trying to. My love is boxing. People ask me about which sport is more brutal. You know, they’re both tough sports. In boxing, you absorb more punishment when it comes to getting hit because you’re constantly getting hit. [In MMA,] a lot of guys go down because [MMA fighters] don’t want to get hit. But when [MMA fighters] go [to the ground], it’s a different ballgame because they could break your leg. I’ve had the best of both worlds, so no one can come tell me what’s tougher and what’s not tougher. They’re both tough. People can ask why don’t I come fight no-holds-barred again. I’m like, why don’t you come box? You come to my world. I came to your world. Get in the ring for me for six rounds. Let me beat your ass and show how it feels. I’ve had altercations, and I’ve always won every argument over that. I came to your world, you come to my world. I’ve done both, so no one can really tell me what to do and what not to do. I’ve trained with the best. I’ve gotten my ass kicked by the best in no-holds-barred. It’s a lot of fun, a lot of rewards. Boxing, that’s my love. That’s what I want to do. I want to be a world champion.

You can’t take an 11-year-old boy’s dream away from him because that’s the only thing that keeps me going. That 11-year-old boy is still inside of me saying, “I want to be a champion.” And that’s one thing I’ll probably go to the grave with. Boxing is my love. All that “I’m the Billy Badass of the world, I can dominate everybody.” Keep that [crap]. I want to be heavyweight champion of the world, but I also want to be driving a nice car down the street and be recognized. I don’t think there’s much money to be made in no-holds-barred. There is, but I think it’s way too political in my honest opinion. There are a lot of good fighters in no-holds barred that I’ve respected. They have some <i>TOUGH</i> dudes, especially in the United States. And if you want my opinion, we’ve got the toughest no-holds-barred here in the continental United States. They can say Brazil. They can say Japan all they want, but you know what? All you’ve got to say is Randy Couture. How many people can beat Couture? That’s the toughest S.O.B. I’ve ever seen in my life. I’ve never met the guy. All my friends know him really well because they’re wrestlers, but I’ve seen him train. He’s just tough. He trains hard. If there’s a figure in no-holds-barred that I idolize, it would probably be him because he’s a tough guy. Put that down because he’s a really tough guy. I’m a big fan of his. He shows a lot of mental determination and he fights with his heart. He doesn’t fight with his skills all the time, he fights with his heart. He’s the type of guy who walks down the street…He’s a nice guy, but he’s a mean motherf****. You don’t want to piss him off. If you want to put that down in your paper, you go ahead because he’s got my best wishes.

IF: How has Tony Tubbs the man, helped you along more than any other trainer could?

PH: That’s a good question. He’s definitely made me realize that when you get to the top, no matter who you are, you’ve got to make the right choices. You’ve got to follow the right people, and you’ve got to keep your nose clean, even when you’re at the top. Tony told me this personally. He said, “Look Preston. Everybody was giving me this, everybody was giving me that [before he won the title against Greg Page].” It was almost like they spoiled him. Tony grew up in a hard neighborhood his whole life, almost like a Cinderella story. He grew up tough with a big family. His mother had to take care of a lot of kids and he had to fend for himself on the street. Look at Mike Tyson. A lot of boxers come up from nothing. All of a sudden they work so hard at what they do, everybody gives them everything and people don’t want to give it when it’s all over. Tony’s lesson in life has taught me not to take life for granted. It taught me that I should always keep my mind, keep my heart and keep my morals. When I win the championship, I don’t want to blow my money on damn white tigers and Rolls Royce’s. I want to save that money. I want to buy some real estate. Buy a house in the mountains. Buy a horse ranch and invest the rest of that money. I want to live my life properly. Everybody wants to make money to buy things - to buy a nice house in the country or buy something really nice. I want to do those things, but I want to save my money and I don’t want to get involved with bad people. I don’t want to get involved with narcotics. I’ve dealt with that before. I won’t go into that, but I have dealt with drugs before and it’s not a pretty thing. It’s a scary thing man, and I’ve learned a lot from Tony, believe it or not.

My trainer now, Jesse, is a really positive influence. Jesse tries to teach me the right things. He tells me the right things. He has seen a lot. Jesse has trained a lot of world champions. Jesse tries to teach me what things are good, what things are bad, who to stay away from and who to stay near. Me and Jesse share a lot in common, just like me and Tony share a lot in common. Jesse was a world military champion boxer. He was an All-Navy boxer and an All-Service boxer. I was an All-Army boxer. We have a lot in common. He’s a good man and he’s a good trainer. And he really looks out for me. I’m just thankful just to have him as my trainer; that he wanted to train me. Francois Botha introduced us. Francois Botha gave me the credit to Jesse. He said, “Jesse, here’s a good heavyweight; you should keep your eye on this guy.” I just thank Francois Botha every day for saying that because me and Francois sparred a couple times. I just appreciate that and I’m glad Jesse’s in my life. Tony could have been there to help me with my skills and help me with my mental capabilities, and Tony’s still gonna be with me one day. Jesse’s my exclusive trainer. Jesse is my head trainer. He is the head honcho of it all. Tony Tubbs will always be a part of my life. I will always take care of that guy whenever a time of need [arises]. Right now, I feel like I’m trying to save my money. [Laughs] But Tony is putting up a fight. He has his problems, and he admits his problems. But he is putting up a fight, and that’s important. As long as you’re there fighting it, you’ve got my faith and my best wishes. I don’t want to get into what’s going on in his life right now, but he’s putting up the fight. I admire him. I admire the man a lot. He’s a good man, and Jesse’s a good man. I’ve got good people in my life. I have my sister in my life and my family. My mother…I have a great family, a great support system. And I don’ want to ever lose that. I hope that I could be as good to someone in the future as they have been to me.

I don’t have a Cinderella story unfortunately. And personally, I really don’t give a damn whether I have one or not. Growing up, I had three meals a day. My dad worked his ass off to get me an education, get all the kids an education. He made a good living because he worked at it. My daddy came from nothing. Now he had a Cinderella story. I never had a Cinderella story, so if a person is looking for a Cinderella story, you’re not gonna get one. “Preston, did you come from the ghetto?” No I didn’t. I came from a country home out in the country somewhere. We had horses. I had a three-wheeler. I went hunting all the time. I went fishing all the time. I didn’t have a bad life. I had a good life growing up. But I did have determination, so if that doesn’t mean nothing than what the hell does?

Someone has told me this before…Now I want you to listen to this. There has been a person that has come up to me and said, “You know Preston, I would give up this boxing thing.” Well, why? “Well you’re not from the ghetto and you’re not tough. The only really good boxers are the guys you see from the ghettos, and they’re really tough.” And I’m sitting there going, “What!? Man you’re full of crap! Get out of my life! Get the f*@k away from me! I don’t want to f*#$king talk to you!” People have told me that. It hasn’t just been one person. A couple people have told me that crap. Those people are weasels. They’re weak. They have no heart. I love to fight. You want to know why I box? ILOVE to fight. It’s what I love to do. That’s why I’m doing this. When I have a hurt ankle or a hurt foot or a hurt hand, my ribs are all screwed up and I can’t walk right, I’m still training because I love to do this stuff. I have determination and discipline. You don’t have to come from “the ghetto” to have that. [Laughs] I’m gonna clear that up right now. I don’t know. It just pisses me off. People want to hear a Cinderella story and I feel it’s a big part of the publicity in boxing and the promoting of a fighter. [Mocking voice] “Here comes so-and-so, he comes from the ghetto where they had no heat, they had no good, clean water where he had to fight his way off the streets every day. He was a tough brotha’ and he comes out of the ghetto.” They want to hear that. [Mocking voice] “[He] wins a gold medal, the meanest man ever to walk the earth!” Meanwhile, here comes the boy from a three bedroom house out in the country with a three-wheeler. He likes to hunt and fish every day, had horses and comes from a good family and his dad made a good living. They don’t want to hear that stuff. That’s the guy that [is supposed to] get his ass kicked. The tough ghetto brother gets beat up by the guy from the nice country home. It wasn’t supposed to be that way, right?

IF: Well since you’re different than a lot of fighters, that’s a story in of itself.

PH: It’s just the way I feel. I’ve got nothing to hide. This is me. This is what I do. If you don’t like it, you don’t like who I am, you can kiss my ass. I don’t want to lose. I don’t like to lose. I don’t like to wake up the next morning not being able to eat anything with salt in it because my mouth’s burning. I don’t like waking up the next morning grieving because I lost. I don’t like that! One of those days can screw up a whole year. I don’t like it at all. Why I put myself on the line for this, I don’t know. Ask that 11-year-old boy [that question]. I get frustrated. I’m a professional, but I beat myself up a lot and Jesse tries to calm me down. He tells me, “You beat yourself up too much.” I’m beating myself up so I won’t get beat up.

IF: Definitely. Well, on behalf of InsideFighting, I want to thank you for your time Preston, and good luck.

PH: Thank you.

Exclusive Joe Mesi Interview: “A win is a win!”

By Michael DiSanto

03/18/2004

Last Saturday night was like the Good, Bad and the Ugly for heavyweight contender Joe Mesi.

Let’s start with the good. Mesi faced a tough, durable blue chip fighter in Vassily Jirov and came away with a victory to remain undefeated at 28-0. He completely dominated Jirov for about 85% of the fight, and beat the body puncher at his own game.

Now, it’s time for the bad. Mesi visited the canvas 3 times in the final two rounds against a guy that most industry experts view as a less than dominating puncher. And rather than box or look to survive after the knockdowns, Joe decided to fight back. As a result, Baby Joe almost blew a 6 point lead heading into the 9th round.

Lastly, we have the ugly. The cries of “Great White Hype” grow louder each day. Questions about his chin lead to the obvious comparison with former contender Tommy Morrision. But is that fair?

Any way you slice it, two facts hold true following Mesi-Jirov. First, Baby Joe remains undefeated. Second, Mesi remains one of the biggest draws in the heavyweight division. Say what you will, but he’s earned his shot at Iron Mike Tyson, and that’s a fight that any fan would LOVE to see. And it’s a fight that Mesi wants.

InsideFighting: Congratulations, Joe, on your win over Jirov. It was definitely an exciting fight, to say the least. What are your thoughts on your performance?

Joe Mesi: I feel very good on my performance on a whole. I’m very glad that we came out with a win. A win is a win anyway that you look at it. But I just really wish that I had that 10th and final round back to fight over again because I made a mistake, my team and my corner made a mistake, and I’m not afraid to say it. I’m young and inexperienced and so is my corner. After the 9th round, we should have come out and said, “Hey, we’re dominating this fight, so why don’t we come out, box, move, jab and win the round safely.” It wouldn’t have been so exciting if I had done that. Of course, I lose 3 points that last round. I would have dominated on the scorecards had I won that round 10-9. But it’s all said and done and over with now. You know, with my inexperience, after getting knocked down, my natural instinct to get up and fight. And I did that. I shouldn’t have done that.

IF: Have you had a chance to watch the tape yet?

Mesi: I did, yes.

IF: I’m not asking for you to make excuses, but I want your honest opinion. Did that first knockdown come from a blow to the back of the head?

Mesi: It did. To Jirov’s defense, I don’t feel that it was blatant or intentional at all. I feel as if the referee, Jay Nady, should have said, “Listen, no knockdown. Take your time.” I immediately knew because I touched the back of my head. I was kind of disoriented by it because it was a back of the neck kind of shot. I’m not used to getting hit there. From that point on, I don’t remember much. I don’t recall going into the 10th round and fighting the way that I did. And I don’t think that I would have because I think I’m smarter than that. Look, I won rounds 1-8. I even won the 9th round except for the knockdown. I threw 90 punches in the 9th round. I dominated the fight. The first round could have gone either way. I dominated rounds 2-9 except for that illegal shot, which, again, was not blatant. I went into the 10th round, and it was unlikely for me to do such a thing. I just kind of wish I had that round back. But Jirov fought a great fight. He’s very experienced and very unorthodox. I just believe that I out punched the puncher – the guy is known to throw a lot of punches, but I threw an average of 80 punches a round. I cut him with my head, and we thought he would use his head a lot. I beat him to the body. His body was red and his ribs were bruised. I came out of the fight fine. I just should have fought the 10th round differently. It’s as simple as that.

IF: It’s refreshing to hear you be so candid about making a mistake in the 10th round. You know, I was shocked when I heard your corner tell you that you had to win the last round, whereas I had you dominating the fight at that point.

Mesi: I don’t think they meant to say that. I think that they were flustered by the knockdown. I think that they are inexperienced, and they made a mistake. After reviewing the tape, they apologized because they knew they made a mistake. But it’s not just their fault, it’s my fault too. My inexperience helped too. My instinct after I get knocked down is to get up and fight. But really when you’re winning a fight by that margin, you should say, “You know what, I’ll give you that knockdown” and get up and start boxing and win the fight. Jirov is a very tough kid. It didn’t look like we were going to stop him late in the fight. I should have just gotten up [after the knockdown] and started boxing. My corner knows that, and we’ll learn from this.

IF: You threw 773 punches in the fight. That’s a lot for a middleweight, let alone a heavyweight. Was that your game plan? Or did you punch yourself out a bit?

Mesi: I don’t think I punched myself out. I was in great condition unlike in the Monte Barrett fight where I was unprepared and unconditioned. I was very prepared and very well conditioned. I did throw more punches than him, and threw 90 in the 9th round. Coming into the 10th round, I was out of it from that punch, so I didn’t know if I was winning or losing. I didn’t know what to do. I just went out there on instinct. I had no energy. That punch took everything from me. Really, that 1 punch did change the course of the fight.

IF: Obviously, Jirov has come out and said that you never hurt him, that you never even hit him, and that he feels like he deserves a rematch. What are your thoughts on that?

Mesi: Still respecting Jirov a great deal, to say that is ridiculous. From what I understand, he had a concussion, some bruised ribs, and he was stitched up. He wasn’t running around the hotel afterwards. I think he spent some time in the hospital. I dominated the fight from rounds 2-9 except for 1 round, except for me being hit illegally and except for me being somewhat tired. No, he’s not deserving of a rematch just because of 1 round. I was clearly the more dominant fighter, so I’d like to move on. Now, if he wants to talk business, of course I’d give him a rematch. I do the same thing [to him] over again. But I feel that I’m ready to move on and fight some of the top heavyweights in the world. A lot of those guys have easier styles. Jirov comes with a very difficult style. I think that needs to be acknowledged. I may have gotten hit with some shots that I normally wouldn’t get hit with, but we were fighting a guy with a very unusual style and he’s a very durable opponent.

IF: There’s no question that he brings a difficult style. He’s a southpaw with a great chin who throws a lot of punches. It’s just an awkward fight. I don’t think anybody disputes that point.

Mesi: It’s very, very awkward and very uncomfortable. But I found myself becoming very comfortable with the southpaw position while training for this fight. And I didn’t find too many difficulties with it considering that I have very little experience against southpaws.

IF: Now that that the Jirov fight is over we can talk about the future. I know it’s early, but is the plan to have your next fight at Ralph Wilson Stadium this summer?

Mesi: I would really love to have the next fight at Ralph Wilson Stadium this summer or have a fight. If that’s going to take a while to plan and negotiate between my father (his manager), Tony Holden (his promoter), HBO and whoever the opponent may be, then I’d love to have another fight in the interim. But it’s just too soon to tell. We’ve got all kinds of offers and possibilities and people that want to fight me. I think that’s great. I love being called out. You know, this is a business. We just need to weed out the best offer. I’m sure the fight will happen against whoever wants to fight me the most. And that’s in their hands. It’s not in my hands. And it’s a little too soon to tell. We’re all just kind of relaxing and enjoying our win. But we’ll know more in the next couple of weeks.

IF: If you could take a magic wand and choose your next opponent, who would you choose?

Mesi: I think everybody would answer that question similarly. I’d love to fight Mike Tyson. I think I have a little more of a reason than anyone else [to justify a Tyson fight]. I think he and I are the biggest draws in the heavyweight division. He still has a little bit to offer because he’s a draw and because he’s the power puncher that he is. And I think that realistically it just makes a lot of sense for him to fight me rather than anyone else. I think it would be a great outdoor fight here in Buffalo, New York. We could have 50,000 people here and set records. I think it would be great and a lot of fun. Stylistically, I think it would be a great fight too. If I can’t fight Tyson, then I’d like to fight a Corrie Sanders, a Klitschko, Ruiz, James Toney, or one of the top guys out there.

IF: A Tyson fight would be a great fight for the fans and boxing. In closing, do you have any message for your fans? Obviously, the media will be all over the spectrum with their thoughts on the Jirov fight.

Mesi: Sure, I’m used to that. I’d like to thank my fans for their continued support. I’d ask them to continue watching and enjoy the ride that my career has been taking. Every time I’m on TV, whether you’re there live or watching on TV, you’re in for an exciting fight. I fight with a lot of heart, and so you’re really in for an exciting fight. I train to prove that I can fight excitingly and bring interest to the sport that is not typically there, you know?

IF: Definitely. Well, enjoy your win and we’ll catch up with you soon.

Mesi: Great. Thank you.

UFC PPV closer to boxing than most think

By Michael DiSanto

06/30/2004

With no network or cable television contract in place, the UFC is forced to live or die through the wonderful option of pay-per-view TV. That certainly is not an enviable situation, but we must all play the hand that we are dealt. And the UFC is not holding anything except PPV cards.

One of the favorite topics of fans and critics is the “poor” PPV buy rates that UFC events generate. Sure, the UFC still fails to approach the PPV numbers of UFC 4 or 5. Nevertheless, the UFC is much closer to mainstream PPV numbers than most realize.

In judging Zuffa’s PPV success, one must look for the most relevant point of comparison. Forget PPV numbers from 10 years ago because the sport has completely changed since the “Dark Ages” television bans. It attracts a slightly different type of casual fan today. Thus, pre-Zuffa PPV buy rates are not extremely relevant to judging today’s success.

We can forget WWE PPV sales as well. Professional wrestling isn’t a sport. It’s a spectacle watched by pre-drinking age males nationwide who often look to their parents to purchase events. Comparing WWE PPV buy rates to the UFC is like comparing apples to tomatoes. There’s simply no logical connection.

Unfortunately, there is no apples-to-apples comparison sport available. So we are forced to look to the UFC’s most logical pull through market – boxing. And a quick look at boxing PPV buy rates indicates that the UFC is competing quite nicely.

One of the big misconceptions that people have is that all big name boxers are huge PPV draws. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Guys like Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather, Vitali Klitschko, Shane Mosley, Arturo Gatti and Ricardo Mayorga are all major figures in the boxing world. Their worldwide name recognition is tremendous. Yet, they cannot carry a PPV card just on name value alone – at least, no promoter believes that they are able because no promoter is putting his wallet at risk to put those guys on PPV to find out.

When we talk boxing PPVs, there are two distinct classes of fights: Tyson/de la Hoya and everybody else. To compare the UFC to box office anomalies like Mike Tyson or Oscar de la Hoya, who together have generated close to a billion in PPV revenue in their careers is patently unfair. They built their drawing power in a large part thanks to extensive coverage by NBC, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, HBO and Showtime. Without those media giants, it’s very likely that Tyson and De la Hoya would just be Mike and Oscar rather than Iron Mike and the Golden Boy.

So removing those two from the equation, let’s look at the buy rates for two of boxing’s other established PPV stars: Roy Jones, Jr. and Erik Morales. Jones’s last four PPV fights did buy rates of 200,000 (Julio Gonzalez), 525,000 (Ruiz), 300,000 (Tarver) and 360,000 (Tarver II) for an average PPV buy rate of just under 350,000. The 525,000 anomaly was Jones’ challenge for the WBA Heavyweight Championship – the first time a former middleweight champion successfully challenged for a piece of the heavyweight crown since 1897.

Erik Morales, on the other hand, can boast PPV buy rates of 300,000 (Barrera II), 130,000 (Ayala), 120,000 (Chavez) and 150,000 (Hernandez) in his last 4 PPV fights. Understanding that HBO broadcasted Morales-Barrera I, a controversial Morales win by decision that was subsequently voted <i>Fight of the Year</i>, it’s easy to understand why Morales-Barrera II convinced 300,000 households to press “order” on their cable remotes. But even with the Barrera “blip” on the PPV graph, Morales still only averages 175,000 PPV buys when he fights name opponents.

In comparing those numbers to the UFC’s recent PPV buy rates is somewhat eye opening. After setting a Zuffa-era PPV record of approximately 130,000 buys at UFC 40 when Tito Ortiz beat Ken Shamrock, Zuffa struggled badly over the next events with a reported approximate PPV buy rate average around 50,000.

No, 50,000 is not good. But Zuffa is forced to put all it’s events on PPV, so you have to cut them some slack. You don’t see Top Rank Boxing headlining a PPV with Erik Morales vs. Bobby Boy Velardez or Muhammad Murad putting Roy Jones vs. Clinton Woods on PPV. Why? The crude reality is that those fights won’t sell, and would do numbers similar to Zuffa’s reported 40,000 PPV debacle at UFC 42.

But Zuffa is on a roll in 2004. Reports suggest that they are averaging just over 100,000 PPV buys for its three events so far this year. The fact remains that a 100,000+ buy average puts the UFC right there with one of Top Rank Boxing’s biggest draws, Erik Morales, and about a third of the biggest draws in boxing Roy Jones, Jr. Considering that Morales and Jones have HBO’s regularly marketing to its 27 million home customer base, and ESPN2’s Friday Night Fights hyping up each PPV to its 520,844 average household viewership each week, and you start to understand that the UFC’s recent PPV run is actually quite impressive.

Sure, I would love to see the UFC do 500,000 or 1,000,000 PPV buys, but that is just unrealistic given the Zuffa’s current marketing budget and the lack of free promotion (or pre-fight buildup) from major television or cable networks such as NBC, ESPN or HBO. Erik Morales is a star in the much larger world of boxing, especially among the Mexican, Mexican-American and Latino boxing fans. Roy Jones, Jr. is a household name with crossover appeal. So UFC PPV events in 2004 scoring buy rates similar to a typical Morales fight and about one-third of a typical Jones fight is very respectable, if not down right impressive.

Now, this isn’t the time to start patting each other on the back announcing that “the UFC has arrived.” There is still tremendous room for growth. UFC 47 featuring Tito Ortiz vs. Chuck Liddell was one of the most highly-anticipated bouts in the history of the sport, and its failure to break a PPV record is somewhat disappointing. UFC 50 featuring Ortiz-Shamrock II has record written all over it, so a number approaching 175,000 buys is not only realistic, but should be Zuffa’s goal given its recent success.

UFC 49 will be an interesting litmus test for the UFC’s PPV success. As intriguing as the card is for the casual fan, it is equally anonymous for the casual fan with only Liddell, Belfort and Couture sporting name strong name recognition. Belfort-Couture should sell, but there’s no great story like BJ Penn moving up in weight to challenge Matt Hughes to help sell bolster the PPV sales. Thus, if UFC 49 fails to hit 6 figures, that’s okay, so long as it doesn’t languish around the 50,000 mark.

After all, James Toney vs. Evander Holyfield barely surpassed the 125,000 buy mark; and Don King’s recent “huge night of fights” featuring 2 heavyweight title fights (Byrd-Golota and Ruiz-Oquendo) and the return of Ricardo Mayorga failed to perform like Jones-Tarver I. Suffice it to say, not every PPV event can be a smashing box office success.

As long as the UFC continues to grow its buy rates for the major cards while using the other cards to help promote or develop story lines for future shows, then that is a good thing. Sure, we’d all like to see buy rates explode, and many, including marketing expert Lance Ward, who we interviewed several weeks ago on this, believe that an explosion is possible with proper education and marketing.

Nevertheless, the fact remains that the UFC is competitive with typical boxing PPV buy rates, even if it is not performing up to what we all believe is its full potential. So the time of people labeling the UFC a dismal PPV failure should be a thing of the past as it is unfair criticism. 2004 UFC PPV buy rates aren’t so bad after all.

Interview: Freddy Roach ahead of Tyson

By Scott Jordan

07/16/2004

Friday, July 30th, marks the return of the once self-proclaimed “Baddest Man on the Planet,” Iron Mike Tyson. Say what you want, but even at 38, a Tyson fight generates interest like no other, and Tyson versus Danny Williams is no different. People watch as much for the possibility of unexpected drama as they are for the concussive power that he still brings in both hands. They watch because he can turn the lights out in a single second, or flip mentally end the bout with a moment of stupidity. That’s Mike Tyson, the youngest heavyweight champion in the history of the sport, and one of the most closely followed boxers to ever live.

Tyson prepares for his comeback under the watchful eye of 2003 Trainer of the Year, Freddie Roach. Freddie is known as a no B.S. man who will tell it like it is and brings greatness out of his fighters. Freddie was gracious enough to take time out of his busy schedule to talk with the media about Mike Tyson.

Question: Can you tell us what camp has been like so far and how Mike is doing?

Freddie Roach: Mike is doing very well. He has been in training now for three months. I told him to get ready for me for when I come – I had been in South Africa – and my very first day here, he was doing 10 rounds on the mitts. He is in good shape and good spirits. I think the first day of training for this fight, he was in better shape than he was for the Etienne fight completely last time. So he has rededicated himself and he is working hard.

Question: Has there been a change in attitude for Mike between the Etienne fight and this?

Roach: Huge change. I think he hit rock bottom, but that was a wake up call for him and he realized the mistakes he made. He told me he was never going to have an entourage again. His entourage is only two people now instead of 25 and I think he is finding that it is a lot easier to live the simple life than the other lifestyle. He seems more at peace with himself.

Question: How much do you know about Danny Williams?

Roach: I have got the last four of his last five fights on tape and he is a pretty good puncher. He is a strong guy. He does not seem like he is maybe the bravest guy in the world, but he is dangerous a little bit because he does have pretty good power. So we just cannot walk in and just start swinging with this guy. I want Mike to go into this fight a little more scientific and behind the jab and using his boxing ability more than he did in the last fight.

Question: One thing we always hear is that Mike is going to use head movement and punch in combination more and then he comes out and tries to land a single, big, loaded-up shots. Have you changed that?

Roach: We are trying to get the combination back, trying to bring back the jab. It is coming along, but it is not there yet. He still likes to rely on his power We are trying to curb that with repetitive training, the combinations everyday on the mitts and head movement, and we are just working on it everyday. It is not there yet. I hope it will show a little bit in this fight, but I think he needs to do those things to step up to the next level. We are working on it but, again, it is a work in progress and it is not quite there yet, but it is getting better.

Question: He may be living the simple life now, but what if Mike keeps fighting and, say, makes $80 million in a year. Do you think he goes back to the way it is before? Is he fighting because he has gotten back his love for boxing or is it because he needs the money?

Roach: Obviously, I think some part of it is he needs money. But I think, again, hitting rock bottom woke him up and boxing is really what he does best. If he can get back to a certain level, he can beat those champions out there right now. Of course, the money always has something to do with it. I hope he learned his lesson though because I told him, “When the money comes back, the entourage, they are going to come knocking at your door and if you let them in, it will be a mistake. You should learn from your mistakes.” He told me, “I am never having an entourage again. That is it.” I said, “Well, when the money comes back, I am going to remind you of it.” So hopefully, he learned, but you never know.

Question: Is Mike’s ultimate goal to take the title away from Vitali Klitschko?

Roach: It is probably his ultimate goal because Klitschko is rated the top heavyweight in the world. We need a couple of fights before that happens, but definitely that is what we are after.

Question: So it is a reasonable goal?

Roach: Yes, definitely, because we are going to fight this fight and hopefully one more. I want to get Mike right back in the ring and get him in a general fight and then, I think, depending on how he looks in those fights, I think we will go for Klitschko in his third fight.

Question: Do you think Danny Williams is going to go down without a fight?

Roach: I expect Danny Williams to be at his best. This is the biggest fight in the world for him. If he can beat Mike Tyson, he would have a good future. So he better be training for the fight because we are and, hopefully, he will bring his A game to the table.

Question: How is Mike going to be prepared if the fight goes beyond the first few rounds and Williams seems to be able to take his punch?

Roach: We have been working 18 rounds a day, 10 or 12 rounds a day on the mitts, and he has been doing his road work. After three rounds, Mike is not going to fold in this one.

Question: How do you try to motivate Mike to utilize his boxing skills when a part of his head says, “I have so much power that I can just really knock these people out”?

Roach: You cannot knock everybody out. I want him to go out in this fight, not like the Etienne fight, because he went out swinging and box for a while. Mike needs rounds, so I want him to break this guy down first and then take him out. Hopefully, that will happen. But if Mike goes out there and whacks him in the first round, that could happen also.

Question: How has Eddie Futch influenced you as a trainer versus when you were a fighter?